Pit Bulls get a bad rap. Just last week on our site there were some negative comments about them after we published a post about a young Pit Bull looking for adoption. This Sunday (Sept. 23) there is an event that will try to dispel some of these myths and discuss how to help the breed. The “Punish the Deed, not the Breed” forum, organized by PACT for Animals, will be held on the University of Pennsylvania campus from noon to 7 p.m.
The forum will include screenings of the film “Beyond the Myth” at the International House (3701 Chestnut St) at approximately 1:30 p.m., 3:30 p.m. and 5:30 p.m. There will also be seminars and symposiums held at Golkin Hall in the Fitts Auditorium (entrance is on Sansom Street between 34th & 36th Streets), beginning at 12:15 p.m. and continuing until 7 p.m. Tickets are available online ($25) or at the door ($35).
For more information about the forum and the event schedule, please follow this link.
September 20th, 2012 at 6:34 pm
How bout a forum to dispel the myths that cats are friendly in West Phila? Is there a cat lady super-pac that perpetuates this? Are they funded by the Koch bros?
I twisted my ankle the other day being chased by a vicious kitten bent on bloodshed while meowing in angst about some Muslim cat video on You Tube!
Pit Bull prejudice is the least of our issues in West Phila-just saying…
September 20th, 2012 at 8:00 pm
So why aren’t there Schnauzer forums?
September 21st, 2012 at 8:53 am
Why would people who dislike or are grossly misinformed about pits pay 25 or 35 dollars to attend an event about them?
September 21st, 2012 at 12:48 pm
i’ve decided to save my $35 and just avoid all pit bulls forever. win-win.
September 21st, 2012 at 1:07 pm
Jessica, it’s a pep rally for anti-essentialist ideologues.
October 2nd, 2012 at 1:20 pm
This might be one of the stupidest things I’ve seen in a long while. I think Jessica & Thos have the right idea. Did people actually go to this? I love West Philly Local, but enough with the Pit Bull pushing. It seems more often than not, when WPL put out an adoption story, it’s a pit. Beyond the Myth, my arse! They only myth is the one perpetrated by pit advocates about how safe & normal they are. It is a FACT that pitbulls are responsible for nore than double the number of unprovoked attacks on thier owners & children than other breeds, and it is a fact that these dogs do much more severe damage that goes far beyond a mere bite. You can try to twist and jutify and distort the truth anyone you want but we used to accept drunk drivers too. There are enough unprovoked pitbull attacks on people of all races, sexes, ages, religions and income levels to know that their is something seriously wrong with the breed. If it were the owners than all dogs that have equal chances of being chosen by good or bad owners would maul equally. You can’t change genetics. With so many truly gentle, fun, happy breeds out there to choose from, there is zero reason why anyone should feel compelled to own one of these disasters waiting to happen. I live in South Philly and every week I see yet another hipster couple with their freshly adopted pit. One couple in particular walk theirs without leashes. I’ve just had it.
October 2nd, 2012 at 1:55 pm
Mr. Concerned, we don’t do any pit bull pushing. We cooperate with dog rescue organizations and activists who send us information about homeless dogs. Unfortunately, 99.9% of them are pit bulls.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:42 pm
Admin, I understand. I apologize if I sounded so ranty, but I’m fed up with the amount of pits flooding the city & the often reckless people that end up with them. Why is it that 99.9% are pits? It’s my belief that these dog rescue organizations & activists are irresponsible. I blame the deed & the breed. There are alot of folks that prance around the city with their rescue dogs that have no business owning them, especially on streets where many children reside.
October 2nd, 2012 at 5:10 pm
I was attacked by a dog as a young child. The dog who bit me, requiring stitches and plastic surgery to repair my face, was a Labrador Retriever. I still bear a scar from the torn tissue on my cheek and the puncture wounds under my scar, though it has thankfully faded over the years.
The dog I now own is great with dogs, cats, and kids. I’ve had him for 8 years and have yet to experience him “turning” on me or another animal. He’s a rescued pit bull. Imagine that.
Concerned, since you seem to like statistics, I’ll repost some from the last pit bull debate thread on WPL: the pass rate, by breed, of a standardized temperament test which tests dogs in various stressful situations.
“The ATTS Temperament Test focuses on and measures different aspects of temperament such as stability, shyness, aggressiveness, and friendliness as well as the dog’s instinct for protectiveness towards its handler and/or self-preservation in the face of a threat.”
Here is the pit bull vs. other popular, not “dangerous” breeds.
American Pit Bull Terrier: 86.8%
Beagle: 80.0%
Corgi: 80.0%
Cocker Spaniel: 81.9%
Standard dachsund: 68.8%
Golden retriever: 85.2%
Greyhound: 81.5%
Lhasa Apso: 70.4%
Mini poodle: 77.9%
http://www.atts.org
October 2nd, 2012 at 7:45 pm
My ex-neighbor was a Vet student at Penn. Her loving, wonderful PB “turned” on his walker and took off a chunk of his face one day while they were sitting on the couch together. She, a 3rd year vet student, had to put it down because, as she explained to me, certain members of the breed will just snap.
I had no idea. I always blamed the owners.
It was a sad day when I excitedly asked how the dog was and got that answer.
October 7th, 2012 at 3:41 pm
Pit bulls account for the majority of human fatalities, with Rottweilers a distant second. Together these two dogs have accounted for 60% of human fatalities since 2006; I don’t believe statistics are kept on how many animal fatalities they are responsible for.
It’s not that pit bulls are inherently evil or belligerent–many have sweet temperaments. Like any dog, the pit can become aggressive if something annoys or threatens it. Unlike many other dogs, pits and pit mixes have powerful jaws, quick reflexes, and a drive to fight to the death. This puts the objects of their rage in grave danger. A very otherwise sweet pit that I’ve known for years just attacked a kid that reached to pet him–never did it before. Something about the situation set the dog off. Horrific.
October 7th, 2012 at 8:47 pm
As someone who worked for years and years with dogs, all this pit hate is heartbreaking. Just about every pit I’ve ever known has been a loving, gentle dog – the opposite of a vast majority of chihuahuas, Lhasa Apsos, American Cocker Spaniels, Chows, Sharpeis, Jack Russells, and cockapoos I’ve known. Some of the most violent dogs I’ve ever known have been poodles and Pomeranians. I watched a Pom try to strip all the flesh from the daughter of her owner’s hand when the little girl went to pet it in my shop – not because she felt threatened or was in danger, but because that Pom was a -nasty- little dog. Does this mean there is something wrong with all these breeds as well? Should we ban and destroy all these dogs as well? I’ve got the scars to prove their willingness to bite. All up and down my hands and arms. I’m not complaining about those scars, they were part of the job. But I’m tired of people talking about pitbulls like they’re the outlier, the “unpredictable” “loose cannon” of the dog world.
And despite my experience, and all my scars, I’m not bitter about the breed. I recommend people, especially with children, against certain breeds. But I’m not going to walk around demanding that we destroy all Lhasas.
Yes, the danger from a pit bull comes from its bite. There is a pit in my neighborhood who is NOT good with small dogs. I keep my small-ish dog away from it. I worry about it being around other dogs and people. I get nervous when crazy pits are running around off their leashes in Clark Park. But there’s another pit in my building who’s more trustworthy than a lot of other dogs I know.
Yes, pit bulls can do a lot of damage. But any dog can “snap.” Any dog in the right situation will turn. All I ask is that if you’re going to villify pit bulls, do me a favor, be honest, and villify ALL dogs.
Pit bulls, as a breaed, are not monsters.
October 8th, 2012 at 1:47 pm
Kate, perhaps you misunderstand. It’s not pit hate, it’s legitimate concern. I certainly don’t have anything against the dogs themselves. They can’t help what they are, and that’s ticking time bombs. When they snap, advocates will blame anything BUT the dog. It’s like blaming herding dogs for herding behavior. Genetics cannot be trained out of them. Yes, every pit is a gentle loving pooch until something sets them off. One attack in Oklahoma the owner blamed thunder. Another, a pillow “fell off the couch”. People(most of the civilized world)talk about pitbulls like they’re the “unpredictable” “loose cannon” of the dog world because they are. We forget that they’re a man made artificially created animal. This savior fetish is getting rescuers killed now. One was just mauled to death in NC. I’m all for helping animals & I’m a pet owner myself, but the number of pits I’m seeing on the streets is just getting ridiculous. We have no say in the matter as every week we’re subjected to another Ethan & Ursula & their new rescue. I know that other parents/residents on my street alone are getting sick of them. Any dog can snap? Are you kidding me? I hear this all the time. There’s a big difference between Poodles & Pomeranians snapping & a Pit. Should they all be destroyed? No. However, besides leashes(again I see them walked without)I’d like to see muzzles, liability insurance for new owners, and stricter screening by adoption agencies.
October 8th, 2012 at 7:19 pm
If we’re taking the “it’s their breeding” angle: Pits who showed human aggression were put down. They didn’t breed them. A pit bull who turned on their handler was an undesired one. They were bred for dog/animal aggression. Not human-aggression. You can thank the sub-humans who decided pits looked tough and used them as a status symbol.
And, yes, all dogs can snap. They’re animals. Animals can, do, and will “snap” when under the right circumstances. Or, more likely, appear to “snap,” as humans miss the cues dogs give prior to the growl-snarl-snap. Most of these “snaps” could have been avoided.
Muzzling a dog in public when they don’t need to be (ie OMG IT’S A PIT MUZZLE IT!) creates more tension, fear, and fear-aggression. A muzzled dog is a dog who cannot defend themselves against perceived threats and they will react accordingly.
I would be _thrilled_ if we could get leash laws enforced. I see dogs of ALL BREEDS off-leash. I don’t care how “sweet” your dog is, you don’t know how my leashed dog is when charged/approached by an off-leash dog.
Liability insurance should require genetic testing, paid for by landlord or insurance company. Most people can’t actually tell a pit bull on looks alone.
Stricter screening for ALL breeds.
October 8th, 2012 at 9:01 pm
Mr. Concerned, I understand your legitimate concern. And I’m glad to see you walk back your stance just a bit. But they are no more of a loose cannon than any of the other breeds I’ve noticed. The only difference, perhaps, is that a lot of the breeds I’ve mentioned don’t snap – they’re born violent and aggressive, they’re biters even as young dogs, and only get worse with age, and no amount of rehabilitation can recover them. And then, their owners walk them on retractable leashes and act like everything’s okay. So I guess if you’re saying, a pit can turn on its owner whereas other dogs will just be nasty, violent dogs from the get go, then okay. Any terrier can snap – that’s why any responsible breeder of ANY breed of terrier, from Cairns and Westies to Airedales and everything in between, will not recommend them to families with young children.
I’m not forgetting that they’re man-made creations. The evolution of dogs as tools is one of my areas of continuing research. We’ve made them, yes, but by that same logic, it stands to reason that we can change them as well. The subsequent poster is right – muzzling them in public is NOT the answer. If anything, it will exacerbate the situation by further perpetuating fear and distrust. We have a responsibility to these animals to do right by them. Condemning every last one of them outright because of the deficits of a few is entirely unfair to a massive number of good dogs.
Regarding the leash thing: As someone who spent years training her dog to be responsive and obedient off-leash, I’m not ANTI-leash laws. But if we’re going to require leashes, let’s outlaw retractable leashes. Who’s with me?!
October 8th, 2012 at 9:58 pm
All dogs can snap, but it’s rare for any but a pit or pit mix to kill humans. When other dogs snap, they cause flesh wounds. When a pit snaps,it often goes for the kill. That’s a huge difference.
There is by the way a full list with details of all the human fatalities by dogs in the last eight years on Wikipedia (look up dog fatalities). You will see that pits and pit mixes were the killers in nearly every instance. Most killed their owners or owner’s children, or neighbors and their children. Given this trend,it’s mainly only the owners and their neighbors and friends who should be afraid.
October 9th, 2012 at 10:23 am
@ the pits – EXACTLY. I do not deny that any dog can “snap” given the right unfortuanate circumstances, or even sometimes accidents can occur. My daughter (at 5yrs old while being watched by a friend) fell on a sleeping older Chow mix dog. The result was a horrific bite to the face. That dog, needless to say was never near my daughter again. However, our dog (a poidle mix) has been stepped on numerous times just by accident because she gets under feet and has never so much as growled at anyone. Now, I KNOW that could chnage in a moment and sure sure, her little 6lb self could bite someone, but the difference is she could NOT KILL SOMEONE.
I mean, I am sure given extremely strange circumstances (like she was a zombie dog) maybe she could, actually kill a person, but it is not even close to the realm of reality whereas a pit bull killing a person is heard of almost as often as any fatalities of people by dogs. So, just like I would never want to be the owner of a large boa constrictor (it could get out of the cage) or any of ther pet that could potentially kill me, I would not want to have a pit.
October 9th, 2012 at 11:01 am
ANY large dog can maim or kill a person. The fact is that there is a pit bull overpopulation problem. They are currently one of the most popular dogs to buy or breed in many areas of the country. If the popular dog du jour was a Chow Chow or a Doberman, I would bet a lot of money there would be breed-specific legislation and internet rants against those breeds, instead.
Anyway, clearly people here have made up their minds. I’ll just keep laughing when grown men cross the street to get away from my “vicious” pit bull, who is the gentlest and best dog I’ve ever owned.
October 9th, 2012 at 12:01 pm
Responding to Lou, there HAS been a history of attempted BSL against other large-breed guard-type dogs. Before pits, it was Rotts. Before Rotts, it was Dobes. I remember when I first got into dogs as a career, over ten years ago now, and Rotts were the breed to fear. I knew groomers who’d refuse to even take them, because “any Rottweiler can snap and will kill you.” The dog attack stories that made it into the news were always Rottweilers, attacking an maiming/killing small children. Before that, Dobermans were the “nasty violent untrustworthy” dog to fear. These misconceptions are only cured through owner education and responsibility and public education.
October 9th, 2012 at 1:23 pm
It’s a simple fact: pits and pit mixes kill humans, a goodly number of them, each year. If there were fewer pits, it stands to reason there would be fewer deaths. Indeed, if you look at the statistics, the number of human fatalities went up in what appears to be a direct relationship to the increase in pit bull ownership. Other large dogs have and do now and again kill a human, but never, even in their peaks of popularity, did they kill humans at the rate pits are doing. They are a dangerous breed. That doesn’t mean they’re bad or evil; it just means they can be deadly. Those of you who own pits and chuckle about this remind me of Grizzly Man, the guy who spent all that time running around with misunderstood grizzlies, until one day one of them tore him to pieces and ate him and his idiotic girlfriend.
October 9th, 2012 at 3:21 pm
The logic that pit bull apologists use is so specious: “Pits may be dangerous, but so are other dogs, so it’s OK.” Or “My pit hasn’t snapped, therefore, all pits are sweet.” It is the same absurd logic that all apologists use when they hold indefensible positions: “Oh, smoking kills? Well you also can die getting hit by a meteor! Therefore, smoking is safe!”
You might as well claim, I have a handgun that has never been fired at anyone. Therefore, Philadelphia would be better off if there were thousands more guns in the streets.
October 10th, 2012 at 9:01 pm
I am not a pit bull apologist. I am trying to make reasonable, rational points and am being ignored by people who want to destroy every pit bull because of the sins of a few. The criteria being used to judge them is that they are violent, dangerous, and EVERY SINGLE ONE will snap and kill someone at some point. I will now follow THAT specious argument to it’s natural conclusion: By that criteria, every other breed of dog is equally dangerous, and we should just destroy the entire population of domesticated dog in this country.
You see how unreasonable I now appear?
But, in the same way I do not engage with people regarding politics, mostly because a rational, knowledgable mind is not appreciated in those corners, thus I will remove myself from this conversation as well. I will never convince you that some – indeed, most – pit bulls are loving, well-behaved, trustworthy dogs, just as you will never convince me that free-market capitalism in its purest form is the best social system. I simply desire more nuanced conversations than either of you seem willing to provide. Best!
October 10th, 2012 at 11:10 pm
Kate, please try to read carefully. You are letting your sentimentality cloud your judgment, and that just underscores that you’re the wrong kind of person to be owning a pitbull or pit mix.
Try to absorb this: There is a clear difference between pits and the majority of dogs. This difference is that pits, unlike the vast majority of dogs, have the jaws, teeth, and instincts to kill people, and they do, every year. Look at the statistics and you will see that pits are the main killers of human beings, and have been for years. And the more pit bulls there are, the more people get killed. It’s a numbers game.
Get it?
If you have a disproportionate number of such dogs in a concentrated area, the odds are good that one of them is going to maul or kill a child, a friend, a neighbor, or you, the owner (the statistics suggest that owners are in the greatest danger of being mauled or killed by their otherwise sweet-tempered dogs: be careful that you don’t accidentally step on or trip over them, surprise them, do something that they find threatening, set off their predatorial instincts, or try to get between them and something they intend to kill, is all, and you should be okay).
I don’t think anyone posting here wants to set up death camps for pits. We would just like people in the neighborhood to consider mixing it up a little with their rescues. We do not regard pit rescuers as noble; we see them as contributing at this point to the danger of our neighborhood rather than adding value to it. Please rescue other breeds in the interests of diversifying and making safer our neighborhood.
Please remember that the other dogs you bypass for pits also go to the death chamber. So there’s nothing special about what you’re doing, other than making west philadelphia more dangerous. Thanks a pantload. or a pitload.
October 11th, 2012 at 9:52 am
So let’s look at this in another, rational way. What are the metrics of pit attacks from ‘snapped’ adopted shelter dogs in West Philly? Not dog-fighting dogs tied up outside delis or escaped from a yard, but dogs who are vetted and given to families from shelters.
If is is a community concern, let’s see the metrics. If pits are so dangerous and we have such a high concentration of rescues parading around, the numbers should be pretty high, right?
October 11th, 2012 at 10:30 am
While we are playing “numbers games”, let’s not overlook a very important statistic. The overwhelming majority of dog attacks are unaltered adult male dogs. %70 of nonfatal attacks and %97 of fatal ones, regardless of breed (ASPCA).
Shelters and rescues in Philly have mandatory spay and neuter for adoptions.
Another fun number: %70 of dog attacks are reported as dogs for guarding, defense, studs and fighting purposes.
If dangerous dogs are really a concern,it seems like reducing dogs for violent purposes and increasing neutering would be the logical, effective, statistically significant way to reduce serious dog attacks. Not trying to discourage adoptions of certain breeds.
October 11th, 2012 at 10:44 am
@West Pitladelphia, I’m not letting sentimentality cloud my judgment, I simply find myself easily frustrated by the expanding trend in this country that you can only be x or y, and that more nuanced conversations about things are impossible. Please resist the urge to preach.
Furthermore, in the very beginning, I acknowledged that what makes a pit bull so dangerous is the strength of its bite. I sense that people may not be reading this thread from the beginning, and therefore may be basing their responses on the last few comments in this thread. I would encourage you to read the entire thread.
I’ll let the comment about my qualifications to own a pit bull go, but will only say, once again, I have been working with dogs for the greater part of my life, and am probably more qualified than most to own dogs in general. Unfortunately, pits are simply not my breed. The dog I own now is the “family” breed – it’s been basically the only breed of dog we’ve had for three generations now. I also work with the breed-specific rescue for the breed.
The reason you see so many pits getting adopted has little to do with being “noble” as a pit rescuer, or attempting to look like a hero, and I imagine ALL people who adopt dogs would find that very notion offensive. At least I do. The reason you see rescue pits around is that as a breed, they outnumber other breeds in this city. There are a lot of reasons for that, the number one reason being owner irresponsibility. People don’t spay/neuter their pets. They get a puppy because it’s cute and six months later don’t want to actually work with this dog they suddenly find themselves in possession of. Perfectly good pet animals, raised in homes since puppyhood, find themselves abandoned when their people move, or have to move into buildings that don’t take pets. Or perhaps a sketchy character gets a pit as a symbol, or for protection, but the dog is just too damned sweet and wants to be friends with everyone, instead of attacking them. Or the girlfriend doesn’t like dogs. Or the kid is allergic. Or the shedding is too bad. Or it barks too much. Or it peed on the rug because “we left her home alone all day, we were only gone for eleven hours, couldn’t she hold it?!” There are a thousand reasons why ANY dog might find itself in a shelter. My recent favorites: “We found a dog hair in the baby’s bottle” and “He broke a nail and we don’t want to pay the vet bill.”
I encourage you to consider WHY so many people rescue pit bulls. It has little to do with a sense of heroism (at least, any more than any rescuer feels) and more to do with the sheer quality of pits looking for homes.
As an advocate for the breed, and for all dogs, I understand why people are afraid of them. I’m not trying to paint pit bulls as being totally harmless. Every dog can be pushed too far, and pit bulls can do a lot of damage when pushed over the edge. I am not the other end of the “THEY’RE ALL KILLERS” spectrum, although people are trying to paint me in that light. But talking about them like they’re all just monsters waiting to snap, that every one is the Hulk just waiting to get angry, demonstrates a general refusal to see both sides of the issue, and demonstrates a willful ignorance to learn more about a breed. That’s all.
October 11th, 2012 at 12:12 pm
@Kate: Well said on all counts.
@Lou: I will also continue to chuckle whenever someone crosses the street to get away from my “vicious pit bull” who’s wearing an argyle sweater.
October 11th, 2012 at 1:58 pm
Well said, West Pitadelphia. I have to say, I’m pleasantly surprised to see I’m not in the minority when it comes to the current pit craze. Usually, when someone comes out
against them they’re bombarded by shrieking apologists. It’s refreshing to know that others share my concern. I’d like to think the majority of people realize how inherently dangerous these dogs are. Kate, I actually respect your approach to this debate. The strength of it’s bite is not the only thing that makes a pit dangerous…it’s the genetic traits that were bred into them. The “gameness”, if you will.
They were created for a purpose, and even the most skilled & the best of intentions cannot take that out of them. The United Kennel Club UKC (2nd largest registry in the world) was created in 1898 to register the American Pit Bull Terrier (APBT). The first registration was the founder’s own pit bull, “Bennett’s Ring.” Mr. Bennett. Bennett conceived and promoted the concept of the “total” dog, that is, a dog that performs as well as it looks. Bird dogs had to win in hunting contests, herding dogs have to win in herding dog trials. Guess what the UKC registered APBT had to win before it would be declared champion? Not the “nanny dog” contest, as that fictitious nickname wouldn’t be invented for about 100 years. Nope, APBT had to win 3 dog fights, with a UKC referee in attendance/sending in the “contest” report to the UKC. “Kill or die
trying” was the motto the pit fanciers/fighters gave to their pride and joy creation. I disagree with you to a point when you say it has little to do with a sense of heroism & being noble when it comes to the explosion of pit rescuing. I think some of these rescuers want to prove the “haters” wrong. They perceive injustice. Some of it is the “look at me” syndrome. I simply don’t trust for one second the majority of these new hip/yup pit owners I see all over the place. Let me illustrate why I’m Mr. Concerned. I’m not in West Philly, but in the East Passyunk Ave area in South Philly. Like I said earlier in the thread, every week I see more & more what I deem unfit owners. One couple insist they walk their two pits without a leash, even though I confronted them several times about it. They could care less. Another(an acquaintance)wanted to show me her new rescue & she could barely keep the dog under control. There was a poodle being walked across the street & the pit was freaking out. The owner was doing all she could to keep it in check. She actually said to me, “Oh he’s fine, when he acts up I just sit on him.” It’s only a matter of time until something really bad happens. I just hope my kids aren’t nearby when it does, and Lou…laugh all you want. I’m more than happy to cross the street. I hope you have a break stick handy.
October 11th, 2012 at 3:31 pm
Mr. Concerned, I appreciate your… well, concern about out of control dogs, including pit bulls. Trust me, I feel the same way. But that is NOT the dog. That is the owner. A pit bull can hurt a small dog or a child without even intending to – they can be rough players and despite their short size carry a lot of weight, literally. Any large breed dog can do this, and I’ve seen just as many injuries from just playing too rough as I have from out and out dog-fights.
But please, remember. Behaviourally out-of-control dogs are an OWNER problem. Not a dog problem. If she can’t keep the dog under control, it’s sure as hell not the dog’s fault. And there is a huge difference between an untrained, high-energy dog and a VIOLENT dog. Pits are a high energy breed with a substantial exercise requirement. Many out-of-control pit bulls you see are not by nature naughty dogs. They’re no different than screaming toddlers with over-indulgent parents. These ARE cases of blame the owner, not the breed; the danger comes in that even the most friendly, best-natured pit will knock a person over and potentially seriously harm smaller dogs. No teeth required.
Furthermore, you may be right, the dog experienced a vogue for fighting. I would, however, like to see your sources. Staffordshire terriers – the proper name for pit bulls – were not designed as fighters. They were MADE into fighters at a later date. Furthermore, they were trained to fight dogs, not people. Dogs that exhibited violence against humans were destroyed, and to this day, studies have been completed that demonstrate that pit bulls, while demonstrating a higher-than-average aggression towards dogs, demonstrate a below-average aggressiveness toward people. These dogs were not designed to attack people, and your defense seems to indicate that you are lumping things into the same category.
You should be concerned, of course, with a perceived large influx of irresponsible dog owners owning large dogs. But be concerned because you might hit one with your car, or because they might knock your child over, or a hundred other reasons. Be concerned because we should all be concerned about untrained, out-of-control pets and inexperienced people owning dogs without guidance. It would be just as frustrating and maddening if everyone had Great Danes and Labradors and Mastiffs – possibly worse.
Also, I’d really like the see the sources on the APBT (known as the American Staffordshire Terrier) being required to win dog fights to get Ch. title in the UKC. In my search for the reference, I’ve found a couple of sites with grossly inaccurate historical information and even those sites haven’t said anything about this.
October 11th, 2012 at 7:51 pm
If you concede that these dogs are more dangerous than most dogs–which they are–that is the baseline premise. Everything must work from that base. I highly doubt that the many cases of mauling and human fatalities by pits are the result of unneutered males. I saw a pit mix attack a kid just a few days ago; a female, neutered, and otherwise sweet-tempered. The kid surprised her.
October 11th, 2012 at 8:28 pm
And one of my family’s dogs almost bit one of my cousins when he jumped on it. And it was a lab mix. The kid surprised him. We didn’t blame the dog. We blamed the other family member who allowed it to happen in the first place, knowing that this otherwise sweet-tempered dog would startle.
Pit bulls are regularly trained as therapy and assistance dogs, and perform admirably. In fact, the same strength that makes them “more dangerous” also makes them incredibly valuable in this job, as they are often able to support the weight of humans that other breeds would not be able to. What is the anti-pit response to this?
October 11th, 2012 at 9:04 pm
Kate, my response to your last question is that there is no way in hell I would put my full weight on a pit bull.
October 11th, 2012 at 11:12 pm
You’re not a seven-year-old child with disabilities. I assume, anyway, that you’re not a seven year old child with disabilities.
October 12th, 2012 at 10:31 am
Pits are no more dangerous than any other large breed dog. Period.
Unfortunately, they are also an exceptionally popular breed amongst the type of people who are irresponsible dog owners and don’t neuter their dogs so a tremendous number of the dogs that end up as strays or in shelters are pits and pit mixes. If you take a random sampling of the most adoptable dogs in shelters in Philadelphia, a significant percentage if not outright majority of them will be pit or pit mixes. Hence you see a lot of them here on West Philly Local. If you don’t understand that math, you don’t understand how random sampling works.
October 12th, 2012 at 1:02 pm
“There are alot of folks that prance around the city with their rescue dogs that have no business owning them, especially on streets where many children reside.”
Wow. Just wow. Two things:
1. I promise to stop prancing around and start walking like a regular person, but who are you to decide whether or not I have any business owning a dog?
2. When my kid was bitten in the face by a dog and sent to the hospital for stitches on Christmas day, it was an AKC Beagle that did it. When I was a kid and bitten in the face by a neighbor’s dog, it was a freakin’ certified Standard Poodle… therefore 100% of the injuries in my family’s experience with dogs have been from “family breeds”.
Also, I sit on my pit bull all of the time. There’s a very comfy bean bag/ pit bull/ Wendy configuration that’s very cozy for watching tv…
October 12th, 2012 at 1:04 pm
“100 Vintage Pictures Of When Pit Bulls Were America’s “Nanny” Dog- The Country’s 7th Most Popular Breed And Our National Symbol.”
http://www.ywgrossman.com/newblog/?p=1154
October 12th, 2012 at 1:07 pm
Good luck, Wendy.
Wow.
October 12th, 2012 at 1:15 pm
Pro-tip: Just because you put the word FACTS is captital letters and do not provide any actual verifiable facts does not make what you are saying anything more than a self-righteous and ill-informed opinion (see: Republican Party). Further tip: If you dismiss people who rescue pits in this city as persons out for some saintly ego trip, and then suggest they just rescue another breed this very clearly indicates to me you’ve never been to a Philadelphia shelter (go to ACCT, 90%+ pit mix). And if you’ve never been to shelter in this city you can’t possibly know what you are talking about and if you don’t know what you are talking about you should really STFU. Lastly, you are not helping your wildly misinformed cause at all when you flat out make crap up … the UKC required dogs to fight? Please, show me a verifiable source on this gem of wisdom you possess! Because that is not true, at all.
October 12th, 2012 at 1:19 pm
http://www.ywgrossman.com/newblog/?p=1154
Thats great. You would almost think pits were all-American kids dogs, like on the Our Gang films or something.
Errr wait.
October 12th, 2012 at 2:32 pm
And here come the Nutters. What you have to respect is perhaps some residents don’t want to be subjected to Wendy, Ethan & Megan’s latest rescue project. I understand their legitimate concerns. “Pits are no more dangerous than any other large breed dog. Period.” Non-hater, that statement alone makes anything else you say invalid. What an asinine comment. Wendy, Pit Bulls were never ever “Nanny Dogs”. Total myth! It’s not a complicated thing people. Recognizing that herding dogs will herd, pointers will point, and retrievers will retrieve..maybe you’ll understand. It is a breed with unpredictable & dangerous genetics. Bully breeds were bred to fight to the death, never bred to be family pets as is contended by the people who worship at the altar of pitbull idolatry. In their training, they were trained to obey commands as any working dog is; however, their “work” is fighting and killing. Will all pitbulls attack? Of course not! But when they do, it is a horrific, slow, tearing, grotesque, brutal mauling that if not leaves the victim dead will leave him/her with a lifetime of recovery, expensive medical treatments, post traumatic stress, and usually disfiguring maiming scars. Pitbulls wag their tails during the attacks and will often run back to their owners, tail wagging, with hunks of their victim’s flesh hanging from their teeth. Search pit bull, pitbull attack images and videos. Do your own research. People have the right to be protected from these genetically engineered dogs. No other dog breed gives us so many victims with catastrophic injuries & they’ve been the top killers for decades. So Wendy, no one is telling you what type of dog you can own, but when there are owners prancing around, with multiple pits, some not leashed, with sanctimonious attitudes, you can’t be surprised when there’s push back.
October 13th, 2012 at 2:47 pm
“I sit on my dog” — good lord. This person shouldn’t own any breed of dog. On the other hand, one of these times she may plop her fat arse on the pit and it will tear her a new one. She will discover the difference between a pit attack and a beagle or poodle attack in short order.
October 13th, 2012 at 3:44 pm
Proud Hater – you obviously are an expert on dog breeding history. I think you should write to these people immediately and straighten them out. They desperately need you to straighten them out forthwith.
“There is no mistaking this dog. The Staffordshire Bull Terrier is a tough-looking character.
The dog is relatively wide and slightly longer than tall, giving it a low center of gravity. Most striking of all, however, are the huge muscles and wide jaws. This dog is the picture of power, yet it is surprisingly agile and quick on its feet.
These dogs pack a lot of weight on a fairly short body. They range in weight from 30 to 40 pounds (13 to 18 kilograms) and in height from 17 to 19 inches. They give the impression of being much larger than they really are.
The tail is of medium length and carried low. The ears are never cropped; they are small and wither rose-shaped or half prick. The short, sleek coat comes in a wide variety of colors.
Personality:
In its home country of England, the Staffordshire bull terrier is nicknamed the “nanny dog,” such is its reputation as a child’s playmate and guardian. Despite his fierce appearance, this dog is a lover, not a fighter. The breed is gentle, docile, and always on the look out for fun. Although not looking for trouble, the Staffordshire will not back down to a challenge and is not always agreeable with other dogs.
Obedience training is possible, although it is not the Staffordshire’s strong point. Force training methods will lead nowhere, but if training is made into a game, then the Stafford is more than willing to play.
Living With:
The Staffordshire Bull Terrier is a dog that needs two things in life — close human contact and a chance to play. He is far too much a people dog to be exiled to the yard, and far too much an athlete to be stuck inside all day. Living with a Stafford means sharing time both inside and out. Given proper exercise of body and mind, the Stafford is a well-behaved house dog.
Because some Staffordshires are not good around strange dogs, precautions should be made that they not encounter dogs while loose. A Stafford may not start a fight, but he will not run away from one. As a member of the family of bull breeds, the Stafford is eyed by many people as public enemy number one. Do not give them any reason to support that impression.
This is an easy upkeep dog, needing no special grooming. ”
http://www.hillspet.com/dog-breeds/staffordshire-bull-terrier.html
October 13th, 2012 at 3:50 pm
From the Dog Breed Information website:
“In the nineteenth century in the English region of Staffordshire, crossing among the Bulldog and various terriers developed the muscular, active, combative Staffordshire Bullterrier. Brought to the United States, the breed was preferred by American breeders who increased its weight and gave it a more powerful head. Now recognized as a separate breed, the American Staffordshire is larger and heavier than his British cousin, the Staffordshire Bull Terrier. After dog fighting was banned in the United States in 1900, two strains of these dogs were developed, a show strain and a fighting dog strain. The show strain was labeled the American Staffordshire, while the fighting dog strain was labeled the American Pit Bull Terrier. The two are now being recognized as separate breeds. Today the American Pit Bull Terrier is being bred with the same gentle qualities as the American Staffordshire Terrier. They both make great pets with the right kind of owner. The American Staffordshire Terrier was recognized by the AKC in 1936. Some of the American Staffordshire Terrier’s talents are watchdog, guarding, police work, weight pulling and agility.”
October 13th, 2012 at 3:59 pm
The entry on the gentle Staffordshire refers to the British breed. The pits we are seeing in the States are the American breed, bred for fighting. Note that even the gentler breed is not that amenable to obedience training.
The dog breed site notes that American pits are powerful dogs that will fight to the death, and they caution that such dogs need from an early age a great deal of socializing, training, consistent knowledgeable displays of dominance from owners, as well as much exercise–without which one they may display aggression. Obviously pit rescues have not been raised in such consistent and loving fashion or they wouldn’t need rescuing in the first place. The rescue pits are unpredictable. And anyone who owns one and doesn’t profoundly grasp this should not own one. They aren’t the only dangerous dog, just the most dangerous dog.
October 13th, 2012 at 4:20 pm
“The dog breed site notes that American pits are powerful dogs that will fight to the death”
What it actually says-
”
The American Pit Bull Terrier Dog Breed
The American pit bull is strong and stocky, probably packing more muscles per pound of body weight than any other breed.
Strong and stocky, yet light on its feet, the pit bull may pack more muscles per pound of body weight than any other breed.
It has a low center of gravity, and appears slightly longer than tall. The muscles of the neck and head are especially well developed. The eyes are small, and the ears may be cropped or uncropped (the latter are rose-shaped).
This dog is heavy for its size, weighing about 55 to 70 pounds (25 to 32 kilograms). It stands between 17 and 19 inches. The coat is short and sleek. Any color is acceptable, although coats with more than 80 percent either white, black and tan, or liver are least preferred.
Personality:
Perhaps no other dog has endured the public misperceptions that the pit bull has. The misperceptions go two ways. Some people consider the pit bull to be the safest, gentlest, companion ever created for a toddler. Others consider them to be very aggressive and dangerous. Neither viewpoint is correct, but both viewpoints have some basis.
Most pit bulls are fun-loving companions, gentle and patient with all their family members (with the very likely exception of other pit bulls). As with all breeds, however, there are bad seeds, and pit bulls are no exception.
Pit bulls were bred to be courageous and game, to continue whatever they are doing in the face of adversity. These qualities make them stubborn, tenacious and fearless. They were also bred never to act aggressively toward humans. Whether through poor breeding or socialization, this characteristic has not always been the case. As with any large dog, a pit bulls should be supervised when with children.
Living With:
Life with a pit bull is always an adventure. These are fun-loving dogs that are always up for a game. They must have a vigorous exercise period every day. Although they are tough dogs, they are not cold weather dogs and should be shielded from the elements.
Pit bulls should be obedience trained not only because it is a good bonding activity but also to combat the public’s perception of pit bulls as maniacal beasts. Because they are very often not good with other dogs, they should be kept on a leash when around them.”
http://www.hillspet.com/dog-breeds/american-pit-bull-terrier.html
Gee I didn’t see those words anywhere in the quote.
As a suggesting making up BS whole cloth and saying it comes from someone else is not a good way to establish crediblity on the internets.
October 13th, 2012 at 4:34 pm
You misread my post: I said the dog breed info site, and this is what it says about the temperament of these dogs:
The American Staffordshire Terrier is an intelligent, happy, outgoing, stable, and confident dog. Gentle and loving toward people, it is a good-natured, amusing, extremely loyal and affectionate family pet. It is good with children and adults. Almost always obedient, this dog wants nothing more than to please its master. It is an extremely courageous and intelligent guard dog that is very full of life. Over the past 50 years, careful breeding has produced this friendly, trustworthy, dog that is an especially good dog for children. Courageous and a persistent fighter if provoked. Highly protective of his owners and the owner’s property, it will fight an enemy to the death if the enemy traps the dog in a corner and threatens its loved ones. This breed has a very high tolerance for pain. Some un-socialized Staffs may be dog aggressive. Socialize very thoroughly when young to curb any dog aggressive tendencies. This breed can be difficult to housebreak. It has given outstanding results as a guardian of property, but is at the same time esteemed as a companion dog. When properly trained and socialized, the Staff makes a great family companion. This breed is not for the passive owner who does not understand that all dogs have an instinct to have a pack order. They need a firm, confident, consistent owner who understands how to display proper leadership. The objective in training this dog is to achieve pack leader status. It is a natural instinct for a dog to have an order in its pack. When we humans live with dogs, we become their pack. The entire pack cooperates under a single leader; lines are clearly defined. You and all other humans MUST be higher up in the order than the dog. That is the only way your relationship can be a success.
October 13th, 2012 at 4:36 pm
It also says this:
Daily exercise is paramount. Without it the American Staffordshire Terrier will become hard to handle. They need to be taken on long daily walks/jogs or runs. While out on the walk the dog must be made to heel beside or behind the person holding the lead, as instinct tells a dog the leader leads the way, and that leader needs to be the human. Teach them to enter and exit door and gateways after the humans.
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/americanstaffordshire.htm
October 13th, 2012 at 5:14 pm
Right, dog owners need to be responsible owners and walk their dog on an appropriately short leash. Not just to be responsible to your neighbors but help the dog feel more psychologically secure (if you subscribe to Cesar Millan’s theory of being your dog’s “pack leader”).
Strong, athletic dogs require more exercise than small, less athletic dogs do. If you are going to adopt any dog, you need to take those factors into consideration.
How you get from that to “don’t advertise well socialized pit bulls being available for adoption because they are all genertically-engineered killing machines” however is logically leap of epic proportions.
October 13th, 2012 at 5:26 pm
How you don’t get to that, Non-Hater, is by poor reading comprehension or perhaps just poor comprehension, which is beginning to look like a characteristic feature of pit bull owners (perhaps we can start a website about this). Undoubtedly to own a pit bull requires a tremendous amount of repression of knowledge and common sense, so it stands to reason that any information that jeopardizes such repression would have to be misunderstood or rejected out of hand.
October 13th, 2012 at 10:11 pm
Once again, I feel the need to point out that NOT EVERY DOG in rescue comes from an abusive relationship. In fact, many dogs in rescue today WERE raised in loving, compassionate environments and only given up because of hard economic times. Dogs end up in rescue for all kinds of reasons, the least of which is “the previous owner made this dog a FIGHTIN’ DOG, take it home to your two kids!”
Also, I have no idea what’s going on in the above exchange – is History of the Pit Bull pro-pit or anti-pit? I thought it might be pro-pit until the end, but I think this is just the same person switching aliases every four posts. Also… History, you posted a bunch of posts speaking to the non-satanic nature of the pit bull, and then… that? To own a dog listed above as generally a good dog requires a tremendenous amount of common sense repression? This argument is becoming less and less coherent.
February 4th, 2013 at 1:43 am
for all thows people who hate bitbulls u should nott hate all its not there falt that alot of them are miss treeted and thats why there the way they are. when pitbulls are agresive its because they get beat,not fed or have to fight for there lives. i have two pits who r loveing and good dogs. if u treet them right how they should be treeted they will be wonderful dogs. it all how they are rease and treat them. so dont hate them its not there falts hate there owners, they can stop the way they are treated.
February 4th, 2013 at 1:45 am
cant*
February 4th, 2013 at 1:20 pm
@Becca
Is that English? I know pit advocates can make little sense, but that was particularly painful to read. You have two pits? Of course you do! Let me guess…they’re rescues right? Are you one of the responsible owners I see walking their pits without leashes? You regurgitate the same erroneous talking points most advocates make. I personally don’t hate them. I do however realize what they are, what they’re capable of, and where they came from. What you fail to realize is that when & if pits turn bad, it’s usually on their owners. You can’t out love or out train genetics. They’ll always be inherently dangerous. It doesn’t matter if you treat them right. By last years attack records Pit bulls kill on average every 21 days, and this year alone pits & mixes are responsible for all fatal attacks. Pit bull type dogs severely maul and kill more than all other breeds combined.
March 19th, 2021 at 2:02 am
I don’t know why people hate this beautiful dog. I have never seen this dog doing something dangerous. In fact, Pitbulls love playing with us. We should change our thinking now, they are good dogs.