From the Spruce Hill Community Association’s Facebook post:
“A Subway sandwich shop wants to open up at a chronically vacant storefront on Baltimore Avenue and is scheduled to go before the city’s Zoning Board later this month. Lots of controversy swirling about this with neighbors for and against it for lots of reasons. The SHCA Zoning Committee has been compiling community input, concerns, and recommendations. What do you think, and if you could nudge the franchisee to make this amenable to the neighborhood, what would you like to see them do/not do?”
Leave a comment and we will forward it to the SHCA.
December 12th, 2011 at 10:22 am
Baltimore avenue is for small businesses.
If you want a subway, go over to 40th and Market or 40th and Spruce where the college kids are.
We have enough small businesses making sandwiches in the area, and I will not slight the small businesses to go to Subway.
December 12th, 2011 at 10:45 am
agreed, simms. there are plenty of hoagie places on baltimore already, and moving a chain ‘sub’ place in to undercut their prices and threaten their businesses is fucked.
December 12th, 2011 at 10:47 am
My only real concern (as it has been and would be with any business, local or corporate going in this spot) is that of the alley it borders. This is where many children play and where the residents park their cars. It is a problem when customers doing a “quick bit of business” or delivery trucks block the alley making it difficult for residents to exit or enter. It is a bigger problem that this alley becomes a “short cut” for lots of traffic associated with a business there as well as for people too lazy to wait for the light at the corner.
December 12th, 2011 at 10:56 am
I see absolutely no problem with a Subway going up in a storefront that is chronically vacant. And I challenge those who oppose it to open a “non-corporate” store in that spot that will stay open a year or longer. Can’t do it? Then let the people that want to eat Subway eat it and the rest of you can boycott it. Simple.
December 12th, 2011 at 11:14 am
I agree with Travelgirl. I whole-heartedly support local businesses, but see no reason to prevent a chain from moving into a storefront that has been chronically vacant. Allowing Subway to open does not prevent us from supporting locally-owned businesses or from encouraging locally-owned businesses from opening in any of the other vacant storefronts along Baltimore.
December 12th, 2011 at 11:15 am
Baltimore Avenue is a thriving corridor for local businesses with many restaurants, none of them chains until you hit 52nd Street. This is part of the reason why this area of West Philly has such a strong sense of community, a community that local businesses participate in with events such as the hugely successful Dollar Stroll. If we want to foster an entrepreneurial spirit as well as a unique community identity it is important to protect these local businesses with zoning that keeps Baltimore Avenue free of chain stores. There are at least three places to buy a sandwich/hoagie within a block of this location; what will happen to these local businesses when a Subway comes in? Most likely they will see a decrease in their sales due to Subway’s name recognition and sense of familiarity for many people. We live in a time when the business landscape of America has become extremely homogeneous, filled with chains and franchises, and yet this particular corridor has managed to retain something special thus far.
I have been eager to see what store would move into this chronically vacant location. There is much opportunity for new business on this stretch of Baltimore Ave and I think we all would love to see something that adds to the community rather than detracts.
December 12th, 2011 at 11:15 am
I would also like to see a local business open here. It would threaten the livelihood of the businesses already in the area if a Subway moved in.
December 12th, 2011 at 11:37 am
Agreed with travelgirl’s sentiment. Right now, the store has been vacant since I moved here over a year ago, it’s bringing down the neighborhood. Several local businesses have apparently failed to make it work. A think a mix of local and national businesses is not a horrible thing, as long as a decent balanced is maintained and it’s certainly better than nothing, especially for those who will work there and attempt to make a living. If people really don’t like it, it will fail as well, such is a free market. I would urge the owner to take part in some manner with the dollar stroll and other local events if possible.
December 12th, 2011 at 11:43 am
I would support a thrift shop, yarn and sewing shop, hardware store, art and craft supply store, garden supply store, art gallery, house paint store, hell even another coffee shop.
This subway is owned by a random dude in Baltimore–not a local “franchisee”. There are plenty of “hoagie” food shops and a need for different kinds of stores.
Anyone looking to open the above shops? I’ll support you!
December 12th, 2011 at 11:46 am
I think a Subway is fine and will should increase foot traffic in that corridor-a boon to neighboring stores.
Subways as franchises are locally owned businesses and offer local immigrants an opportunity to invest their money-and this is no idfferent than most businesses in that corridor. Lets not forget how much immigrant investments have imrproved the corridor that we call home.
One thing I would work with the owner on is front signage and make sure it is consistent with the decor of the corridor. Make sure that the signage must be Spruce Hill approved.
laslty, it would be nice if the Subway offered dog parking so residents with vicious small dogs can’t tie them to something away from pedestrians while they order their foot long. Large pitbull types should be allowed to enter the store though for their safety from the Napoleon’s outside.
December 12th, 2011 at 12:18 pm
Baltimore Avenue has no need for corporate junk food and there are plenty of hoagie shops in the area already. A local business would be welcome.
December 12th, 2011 at 12:27 pm
I agree with A. McAllister. I’d like to add that the sense of community fostered by the many independent, small businesses on Baltimore was the most important factor that led to my decision to move to the area a year and a half ago. I’ve loved living here since, and would like to make the move permanent one day when I’ve finished graduate school. I think a Subway at the vacant location would detract, to an extent, from that sense of community – and I worry that it would take business away from the many other shops nearby that serve sandwiches. I worry that it might ultimately have a ripple effect on the area, and that it may threaten some of the aspects many residents find appealing about living here.
December 12th, 2011 at 12:32 pm
One main factor that has thus far made it difficult for a small business to succeed there is the rent, which I hear is way overpriced. I am curious as to what they are actually charging and whether the landlord is really trying to attract a chain business by pricing out those with shallower pockets. It might not have been vacant for so long if the rent was more affordable. I would think that some rent is better than no rent, but what do I know.
December 12th, 2011 at 12:39 pm
Subway in Spruce Hill is a very bad idea. The reason this neighborhood looks and feels as authentic as it does is because it remains an oasis in the desert of soul-less chains and other peddlers of frozen detritus that have infiltrated other areas. Hopefully the community at large will see this as an unfortunate and incongruous subtraction, rather than an addition to our Avenue.
December 12th, 2011 at 12:49 pm
@Emily, I heard $2,200/month which given the square footage, the landlord and Subway kind of deserve each other.
December 12th, 2011 at 12:57 pm
I don’t have much to say other than I’ve fallen in love with West Philadelphia, and a major reason for that is the local business/community feel. I agree with everyone who has stated this above, keeping the businesses local in that part of town is important. If one chain makes it’s way in, what is stopping others from quickly following?
December 12th, 2011 at 1:04 pm
I recently moved to West Philadelphia, and the strong local business community is one of the primary factors that drew me to this neighborhood. This community has a diverse retail mix and a wonderful ethos of supporting local business. This said, I think that a Subway franchise has no place on Baltimore Avenue.
This franchise will not bring funds back into the community, will not offer anything new to the community and may actually harm other local restaurants by undercutting their prices. I do not support a Subway franchise in this location.
December 12th, 2011 at 1:12 pm
No subway!! No chains! Keep Baltimore Ave a unique location that does not mirror every strip mall. The reason Baltimore Ave. is awesome is because of the variety, diversity and one-of-a kind nature of the humans running the businesses on the avenue. Subway is a gate way to the transformation of our neighborhood toward the worst of American homogenous plastic crapola. Let’s keep it real and small! We need a hardware store! A cobbler! An icecream/popsickle shop! A (used) toy store….?
December 12th, 2011 at 1:57 pm
I would LOVE a hardware store there!! What a great idea! I was really excited to see that it was going to be a butcher shop about a year ago, but it never opened. Pies & Pickles was only open for about a month before it closed again.
December 12th, 2011 at 2:10 pm
A Subway is only a bad thing for the local/community feeling of the neighborhood if it lasts – in which case, that’s essentially the residents saying that they want Subway to stay there. In the meantime, it means that a chronically vacant storefront will be (at least temporarily) filled and there will be new jobs available for local people that weren’t available before (at least temporarily).
And, let’s face it, it’s Subway. Their sandwiches aren’t all that great – it might just cause people to appreciate the local sandwich shops that much more.
December 12th, 2011 at 2:39 pm
I swore, as a life-long Philadelphia that I would never enter a Subway. But could THIS Subway shop severely limit/possibly close down Milk & Honey? Then count me in. That store, the people who work there and most importantly of all, the people who shop there are ridiculous. I know the yuppies and “pioneers (great term, morons)” prefer to buy $8 “orjanic” pasta and $7 runny-orjanic-egg sandwiches but for-the-love-of-Christ please put some store in there where I can purchase a godamned sandwich that is reasonably priced, free of lectures and has more of a customer base than white people with dreadlocks and their snotty overdressed children. Thank you and please, if you are offended, good.
December 12th, 2011 at 2:44 pm
I agree (although perhaps in a less purple prose fashion) with Daniel Tomasso. There’s nothing worse than waiting 20 minutes for a breakfast sandwich, especially when you are feeling the effects of an evening spent at some of the same local businesses that many are praising on this here message board. Just because something is pretentious doesn’t make it delicious – Bumper Sticker!!!
December 12th, 2011 at 3:20 pm
Since we’re attempting to be democratic about this – I vote no for all the reasons already mentioned.
Baltimore Ave has made tremendous progress since I moved here in the late 90s, and owes its success exclusively to local business.
You want to see the effect of low quality chain stores on a vibrant commercial corridor look no further than how south street has devolved in the last five or six years.
December 12th, 2011 at 3:21 pm
I agree with much that has been said and most of all with @Beth Nixon. We do need more foot traffic, we do need even more diversity and we need services and stores that dont replicate and compete with locally owned shops. Another Hoagie shop? We dont really need one anyway right? So regardless of what goes in, let’s take a moment and let the local market for goods and services be met and sustain another good local needs based business.
December 12th, 2011 at 4:05 pm
Diito to what Matty said…and Beth Nixon…
@Amara – heard the same thing…
December 12th, 2011 at 4:30 pm
This is not a chain kicking out a local merchant. The storefront in question is empty, and the last time it was occupied, Pickles & Pie wasn’t exactly an urban beautification or economic success. If the landlords on Baltimore want to charge exorbitant rents, we can expect more chains to move in or more storefronts to remain empty for extended periods. Faced with those choices, I choose chain stores. Maybe some of the ire expressed on this page should be directed to the landlords and not to Subway.
Adding to Daniel Tomasso’s point, Milk & Honey is a local merchant, but I don’t think they’re adding a lot to the neighborhood, with their slow, surly service, bare shelves, and laughable prices (such as $8 Nutella, which Supreme sells for $3.50).
December 12th, 2011 at 6:15 pm
This is a tough issue, especially for a chronically vacant storefront, but I think it is very important to remember, as A. McAllister said, that this corridor of Baltimore is completely free of chain stores (franchise or otherwise) until 52nd street. Our neighborhood is so successful because we have small businesses that are locally owned. When communities have businesses owned from elsewhere, money that could be circulating in the local economy is flowing out– in this case to Baltimore, Maryland. We don’t need that here.
I think this would be a different situation if the site in question were in a problematic row of vacant or blighted properties, or even if the proposed subway was owned by a local franchise operator. This franchise operator is from out of state, and the 4500 block of Baltimore Ave is thriving. In the past two months, a beautiful new hair salon and French/African restaurant just opened on that exact same block across from each other!
If we have local businesses still wishing to move onto these blocks on Baltimore (and since the beginning of summer, some great new businesses have opened just in that 4500-4700 corridor) there is no reason we need to settle for an out of town business. Two other great, *new* places I love on Baltimore in this stretch: the Cedar Park Diner at 4912 Baltimore which makes a great breakfast and is always packed, and Talking Headz hair salon at 4714 Baltimore (every time I go in there, they are busier, and I am sending my friends from south philly to get their hair cut by these ladies because they are so good!).
This area of West Philly is a model community, and is so vibrant and interesting precisely because we have small businesses that are locally owned, and community members who are involved and passionate. This is a unique area in Philadelphia; think of how many people from other neighborhoods in the city come to the summertime Baltimore stroll and enjoy all of the great things we get to experience in our daily commutes. I’m sure local business owners also love that they are learning to come spend money here, so let’s keep this area interesting and local. I live two blocks away from this site, and am so glad to live in this thriving neighborhood that supports its community members and businesses owned by those same community members. Let’s think about places that are new and that work in our community already, and give Baltimore Ave a chance to stay local for a bit longer.
December 12th, 2011 at 6:52 pm
Subway smells like armpits, for real why would they open one up??!! There is all ready a fu-wah that makes hoagies that are the BOMB digity! Last thing West Philly needs is a stank hoagie place that will attract, yes you guessed it… Stank people……
December 12th, 2011 at 7:17 pm
Eight locally owned places that already sell cheap hoagies on the Baltimore Avenue corridor:
1. Fiesta Pizza, 4515 Baltimore Ave. (right across from the proposed Subway)
2. Lee’s Deli, 4700 Baltimore Ave.
3. Fu Wah Mini Mart, 810 S. 47th St.
4. Colonial Pizza, 400 S. 43rd St.
5. Cedar Park Café, 4912 Baltimore Ave.
6. The Fresh Deli, 4832 Baltimore Ave.
7. Best House Pizza, 4301 Baltimore Ave.
8. Royal Pizza, 4202 Baltimore Ave.
These are the guys that Subway will take business away from. And when the first one of these places shuts down, who will move in to their old spot? Burger King? KFC? Starbucks? And then who will these chains put out of business next?
December 12th, 2011 at 7:20 pm
There is no easy solution to this problem. I agree with most of you that yearn to keep Baltimore Avenue unique and free of chain fast food joints. I own a house on Baltimore Ave and serve on the Board of the University City Historical Society.
However, if the store is “chronically vacant” I wonder how much power a group of people has to demand a property owner cannot lease his space to a paying tenant? Some people are talking about wanting only a local business owner there … but meanwhile the store sits empty. What about the jobs that will be created? Okay, low paying jobs … but jobs nonetheless! Others say there are already hoagie places nearby … but maybe some local folks want a sandwich that Subway makes and the others don’t. Will Subway drive the others out of business? I don’t think so … what are they gonna do charge only $1 or $2 when the others charge $5 or $6 … not very likely.
For heavens sake! We are talking about a little sandwich shop … not a huge WalMart tearing down two blocks of historic Victorian homes and moving in.
Let’s be reasonable. Yes, I desire a local, independent, quirky, interesting business to move in. If Subway takes the space this will not be the dire downfall of Baltimore Ave. We had a close call with Walgreens trying to take the empty lot on the 4200 block of Baltimore near Clark Park … now that would have been a disaster!!!!
December 12th, 2011 at 7:25 pm
Does anyone know Ezra and Sara Reuvens, the property owners? They seem to live in the area and bought the place over a decade ago for $45K. It’s a free country and all but do they really have to charge so much in rent for such a small place? No wonder the local businesses that were there struggled.
December 12th, 2011 at 10:05 pm
Is it the owner of the gas station at 46/Baltimore? googled:
Ezra Reuven’s University Garage
Category: Auto Repair [Edit]
901 S 46th St
Philadelphia, PA 19143
Neighborhood: Cedar Park
December 12th, 2011 at 11:09 pm
I think having places where chain stores are not allowed are good reminders that America didn’t used to have any. Baltimore avenue at that spot is a unique place for that very reason. Practically everywhere else you go in Philadelphia and America has little left in the way of small businesses anymore. South street is a good example of why not to buy into some “free market” BS about why Subway has a perfect right to open up there. Maybe they do, but residents of an area also have a perfect right to maintain what kind of neighborhood they want to live in, and chain sores are the tip of the iceberg.
December 12th, 2011 at 11:20 pm
If the owner is really asking for rent that is out of line with the rest of the neighborhood (and i have no confirmation of this – only what’s been posted so far), then i have no sympathy for their being unable to fill the vacancy. If you are a landlord (retail or residential) who cares only for money and not at all for the community you are part of (and dependent on) i would rather you sold your building, made your tidy sum, and moved on.
December 12th, 2011 at 11:32 pm
For all the reasons spelled out prior, no Subway.
December 13th, 2011 at 1:20 am
I looked into renting the spot back in September for a popsicle shop. It was already in the works for the Subway in question. I do not think that the space was vacant for so long due to lack of interest. The rent is rather high, especially for a small business start up. Also, a conversation I had with someone from University City District confirmed that the vacant spaces on Baltimore are not due to lack of interest from small businesses but landlords not willing to charge anything less than premium rent. I found a more reasonably priced shop on 44th next to Tampopo. Come visit this spring!!! And NO to subway! It is his right, but too bad the landlord doesn’t have a better vision for the neighborhood.
December 13th, 2011 at 3:20 am
I vote no for the following reasons.
1. I personally do not enjoy the aesthetic of Subway restaurants. I would rather have an empty store than have a Subway in there.
2. I believe West Philadelphia is in blossom, and small business destination spots attract crowds more-so than franchises.
3. If Subway could open there, a local sandwich shop could too, and they’d have to survive on their own merit without the benefit of national advertising. This would, arguably, make them a better eatery.
4. I believe Subway opens a Pandora’s box where we face Starbucks wanting to take Fiesta Pizza, five, ten years down the line.
Recognizing there is already a Sunoco, I propose we declare what level of franchise we’ll allow on our block. Obviously, Bobby’s Burger Palace is on a different level than Subway, but then again, so is Five Guys. If we draft a neighborhood constitution now, we can always ratify it later. In any case, I think the majority feel indifferent to Subway coming in or negatively. Is my impression.
December 13th, 2011 at 3:31 am
I think everyone here has great points, by the way. Really happy to see this discussion happening.
December 13th, 2011 at 9:10 am
Just last month there was a meeting with Dominoes Pizza looking at the empty building at the corner of 46th, Cedar, and Baltimore (where PFCU was temporarily). Neighbors were not receptive to them either. I believe that it is not a case of an empty storefront or a chain store. I believe that we need to look at what the LOCAL landlords are asking for rent and what the proposed business is. Obviously there have been several businesses opening to what appears great sucess (Mood Cafe, Aksum, the new hair salon, Diamond Nails) I believe a large part of that success is that these landlords are not asking the outrageous rent that some others may be asking. Those landlords would rather see their storefront empty than reduce the rent to get a local viable tenant in.
December 13th, 2011 at 3:38 pm
The fact is that anything (within reason) that preserves Baltimore Avenue’s character as a dense, lively retail corridor for West Philadelphia is better than properties continuing to sit vacant. Subway, if done the right way, could potentially serve this purpose, but will it in reality actually turn out that way remains the question that really needs to be answered before granting approval. Let’s try to strive for more and take a thoughtful approach to filling in the gaps along Baltimore instead of putting something in that has the potential to take business away from local establishments.
December 13th, 2011 at 6:25 pm
Some people think that a Subway is better than vacancy. Well, why exactly is the property vacant?
Perhaps the owner is a greedy thug who wants to rent to a chain because he can get the most money for it that way. Perhaps he is shoving a Subway (or similar) down our throats. Perhaps we should send the Subway the same place we sent the Dominos Pizza that tried to move in up the street. After all, what is the difference.
December 13th, 2011 at 6:28 pm
Baltimore Ave, if I ignore the tall buildings to the East, reminds me of the main street in the small town where I grew up in NH. All businesses back then were locally owned – I don’t recall any chains. Granted, Baltimore Ave has a lot of hair salons and restaurants and lacks certain things that a main street would have, like a hardware store, but I would rather a store stay vacant then for a chain to move it. It opens the door for other chains and pretty soon Baltimore Ave isn’t Baltimore Ave anymore. And why would anyone want to get a hoagie at Subway when Fu Wah is a block away?
December 13th, 2011 at 9:19 pm
+1 on Matty and Beth’s comments, and on the armpits comment too. My reaction to the Subway is pure NIMBY – when I was space sharing with Casino Free Philly at 8th and Market, I gagged some mornings because of the heavy smell of Subway breast baking flooding the space from the Subway next door.
I walk up and down the corridor probably twice a day, every day, and have worked and lived on Baltimore for years. I have seen very creative uses of the plaza right before Cedar Point Park (the former.Hollywood Video and PFCU), including a party for kids locale, snow sculpture gallery, and foodcart stop.
I wish the former Pickles and Pies was the promised Halal butcher and can imagine many great uses for it – popsicles and used toys sound great. What agency do we habe to keep a smelly Subway off the street?
December 13th, 2011 at 10:24 pm
This would be on my block.
Just please pick up the trash and don’t block the alleyway.
I love our local businesses, but I’d rather see a Subway then a empty store, another run down grocery, cheap corner quick-mart or places that look like blight. Plenty of streets mix chains and unique shops (Haddonfield, South street, Manyunk) and it didn’t kill the neighborhood. Simply speak with your wallet and eat someplace else.
December 13th, 2011 at 10:43 pm
@Subway?: I would argue that it did kill South Street. That street used to have a lot more character. Not only that but it now has many vacancies, including some of the chain stores that abandoned ship when the economy got rough. In the 22 years i’ve lived in Cedar Park, Baltimore Ave (between, say, 43rd & 50th) has never had more than a handful of vacancies at any given time, regardless of the economy. Local businesses are generally more invested in the communities they serve.
December 13th, 2011 at 10:45 pm
As much as the vocal minority who’ve posted their feedback would love to see some Rockwellian version of Main Street on Baltimore avenue, they are a minority..
Hopefully SHCA solicits the feedback from the other 90% of the population via Church groups, talking to adjacent Baltimore business owners, etc.
Lastly, do we have any evidence that the price of rent was the common point of failure in that space or are folks getting hysterical based on innuendo?
Also people are forgetting the impact that *pioneers* and Penntrifiers have had on pricing the original immigrant population out of the residential space, and now the commercial space. The consequences of this are the overpriced Milk & Honey’s that serve a minority.
December 13th, 2011 at 11:08 pm
I am opposed to a Subway for the reasons folks listed above. My child attends the preschool 1/2 block up from the lot. Children are often walking/running down that block to the little park at the corner of 46th. A Subway would increase the “quick bit of business and delivery trucks” that a previous writer mentioned, making Baltimore Avenue a more dangerous place for pedestrians.
December 14th, 2011 at 12:13 am
There are still plenty of small indie shops on South street and there were chains there 25 years ago when it was doing OK. It’s suffering with the rest of the economy and other areas of the city becoming bar spots.
So did Starbucks kill Haddonfield? Pottery barn in Manyunk? It doesn’t seem so.
People need jobs- and yes low paying wage slave jobs. Here is an empty storefront and someone willing to open up.
December 14th, 2011 at 2:13 am
25 years ago South Street had Tower Records, Radio Shack, and maybe Boston Chicken. That’s all i remember chain-wise between 2nd & say 6th or 7th.
December 14th, 2011 at 5:24 am
I have been enough subways that each is not designed to handle a long line of people. I also don’t see how it will worsen the traffic by itself, as it is just a subway. It will turn me away if I see more than 10 people inside, which is only possible during lunch hours. And I would end up taking out from places nearby which is a good thing. So I think it will bring in people traffic during lunch times, which is not peak hour for the vehicle traffic and when the kids are inside the daycares. We may have to accept the fact that there are only so many local people to support local businesses, that do we really want a Haddonfield or Manyunk on Baltimore?
December 14th, 2011 at 9:38 am
West Philly is a special place to call home. One of the reasons it’s so special is the lack of chain stores. Subway stores are homogenous and ugly, and their food tasteless. It would really be a sad thing for the whole neighborhood.
December 14th, 2011 at 10:34 am
In regard to the concern for pedestrian safety – I know I’m just a girl from the suburbs but…don’t cars already drive up and down Baltimore Avenue? It’s…a road right? Or are roads different here in the big city?
December 14th, 2011 at 11:22 am
@Media- I was disturbed by that post too- No matter what goes in that store, I really hope people are watching their pre-school age children! There are two blind alleys on the block on either side of Melville. It would not be easy for even a careful driver pulling out between 2 buildings you can’t see around to spot a darting, tiny human that’s 2 feet tall.
December 14th, 2011 at 11:50 am
Great discussion. Some random responses from me:
Filling an empty store front in West Philly is NOT an emergency and will not solve blight in our neighborhood.
Take a look around. There are dozens of unoccupied janks on the Baltimore corridor and everywhere else in West.
Local growth is on the upswing. Let’s let it happen at a pace the neighborhood and local investors can support.
I guess it’s totally beyond me why anyone would agree to replace urban decay with trashy salt and grease, particularly since the alternative is not necessarily 8 dollar Nutella or snobbiness or behavior police.
Finally, it would be good to find out if the rent at that location is actually higher than market or whatnot.
December 14th, 2011 at 12:40 pm
I second what @E D D and @Morgan say.
That block is not blighted; the property isn’t a nuisance abandoned building.
And, as Morgan writes, a Subway would be duplicating what many other shops on Bmore Ave already sell. I hear the free marketeers saying, “Then just don’t shop there.” But the marketing machines of a big national corp, the low wages and economies of scale that allow a big corp to undercut local biz, and the American/human tendency to choose shiny-safe-familiar over local don’t make it a level playing field.
We should absolutely be careful about saying no to new businesses. The city desperately needs jobs and tax base. But it makes sense to say no to (a) an absentee franchisee (b) opening a national chain (c) that duplicates many existing businesses and (d) that is known for its low wages.
To the folks who say “I’d love see a XXXXX open there:” it would be great if you did it. Running a small business in Philadelphia is tough as hell, and it is a bit unfair to yell our ideas from the sidelines. (Big ups for the folks opening a popsicle place.)
December 15th, 2011 at 1:18 pm
I am willing to bet that the folks who say “no big deal” and “chronically vacant” don’t even live in Spruce Hill and are completely unaffected by the possibility of a Subway opening there. Every time I drive through a formerly eclectic showcase neighborhood (think old South St) I remember when McDonalds came in and then Zipperhead moved…and so on. Now the rents are too high to sustain and the customer base for small shops is all but gone.
That is a thriving block with many businesses that I frequent monthly. Can I vote with my feet and my dollars? Sure I can. But why wait for that? Prevent this mess from showing up because that is what it will be. A MESS.
DON’T DO IT. DON’T SUPPORT IT.
Don’t be middle of the road. If it does not directly benefit you, then why support it?
December 15th, 2011 at 3:23 pm
I actually live on that very block, Frank. It probably effects me more then it does you. I just don’t have my panties in a bunch over one Subway in one empty storefront. I just hope they don’t let customers block the back drive like the old grocery store did.
December 15th, 2011 at 4:11 pm
People its very simple. Either you want zoning to be a fair and transparent process where everybody gets the same treatment under the law or you want zoning variances handed out according to what the disctrict councilperson says, ignore the law. And in practice the latter would translate to whoever contributes to Jannie Blackwell’s reelection fund gets a variance and whoever doesn’t gets stuffed.
Its awesome that people don’t like chains but the Philadelphia zoning code does not regulate for chains vs. non-chains. You can’t arbitrarily stomp on due-process of the law because you don’t like X kind of shop.
In the US there is only one major city that regulates on chains in their zoning code – San Francisco. There is stuff I like in their implementation of the law and stuff that is problematic. It regulates all “formula businesses” that use a similar logo and product at more than one location. So the folks who own Milk & Honey who recently bought the local Philadelphia Java Company chain would actually for example be subject to the same rules. I.e. two locations have exactly the same name, look and products (the two Philadelphia Java Company locations) and a third that has almost all of the same products and some groceries to boot (Milk & Honey). My understanding of SF’s anti-chain rules is that even Milk & Honey might count as a “formula business” and require a special variance as a “chain” under those rules.
Its sometimes funny how people who scream the loudest without thinking about what they are actually saying can sometimes get bit by the “Law of Unintended Consequences”.
There is a very simple way to discourage chains from opening in the neighborhood, don’t give them your money. Much better than asking local elected officials to arbitrarily start picking which businesses people should have the option of patronizing or not. Leave that to individuals, don’t legislate peoples ability to decide for themselves away from them.
March 7th, 2012 at 10:57 pm
have they opened yet? Are your veins clogged with mayo and your porches clogged with trash yet? Keep me posted will you?
March 7th, 2012 at 11:12 pm
Denied.
March 8th, 2012 at 8:46 pm
I don’t understand. Denied my request or their license was denied again?
I just want to know if we’re going to hear from Sean some more.